#239 – Jon Paterson

Jon Paterson has been working in the theatre industry for the past 30 years and is the current Technical and Artistic Director of the Astor Theatre in Liverpool, NS. Jon is also one of the founders of FringeLiveStream.

Jon studied theatre at Grant Macewan University in Edmonton, where he began his association with director Kenneth Brown. Jon has co-produced, performed in, designed and/or directed dozens of shows with his theatre company, RibbitRePublic.

Jon has performed in various theatre and festivals across North America including The Centaur Wildside Festival, Canoe Theatre Festival, Just For Laughs Comedy Festival, Mayfield Dinner Theatre, Vertigo Mystery Theatre, Zero Gravity Circus, Orlando Fringe Festival, Fresno Rouge Festival and, most recently, Off-Broadway’s Soho Playhouse.

Jon is also a stilt-walker, stage manager, poster designer, and Winnipeg Jets fan.

Instagram: @jon.paterson

Fringe Live Stream

FringeLiveStream is a group of artists dedicated to providing a platform for live performances. Showcasing live, FringeLiveStream, and unjuried content, with artists receiving 100% of donations. FLS also provides a voice for underrepresented artists through their AUC Performance Series.

Twitter: @Fringelive2020
Instagram: @fringelivestream



Jonathan Paterson, Phil Rickaby

Phil Rickaby  00:02

Welcome to Episode 239 of Stageworthy I’m your host Phil Rickaby.  Stageworthy is a podcast about people in Canadian theatre featuring conversations with actors, directors, playwrights and more. My guest this week is fringe veteran actor producer, John Paterson. Last week I had the producers of the PlayME podcast from CBC podcast Laura Mullin and Chris Tolley. as guests for the second time, you could check out their first guest spot back in episodes 113 now, PlayME podcast is proud to present a new series The Show Must go on featuring exciting productions from some of Canada’s top creators, including Hannah Moscovitch, Drew Hayden Taylor, David Yee, Chloe Hung and Anna Chatterton. Each month, enjoy a new show from the comfort of your own home. The theatres have closed but the show will go on. You can subscribe to PlayME Wherever you get your podcasts if you’ve been listening to Stageworthy for a while, or maybe you’re a first time listener and you’re listening through a link you got in the website or maybe from social media. Did you know that you can subscribe so that you never miss an episode. You can do that by searching for Stageworthy on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, or basically wherever you get your podcasts and clicking the handy subscribe button, and then every week, the new episode of Stageworthy will be delivered right to you. And if you subscribe, let me know that you’re a new subscriber. If you want to drop me a line you can find me on Twitter and Instagram @philrickaby and My website is philrickaby.com. and you can find Stageworthy on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @stageworthypod and the website where you can find the archive of all 239 episodes. Is it stageworthypodcast.com. As I mentioned, my guest this week is Jon Paterson. Jon has been an actor, producer, theatre creator and mainstay on the Canadian Fringe Festival circuit For many years, he joined me to talk about performing Daniel MacIvor’s House as part of Canada performs as well as the fringe live stream initiative that strives to fill the void left by the cancellation of almost all the fringe festivals for 2020. So how have you been?

Jonathan Paterson  02:34

I have been Oh man. Um, how have I been? I’ve been you know, it’s a pandemic. It’s crazy. It’s been it’s been up and down and there’s, there’s been times when I’m like, Oh my gosh, I can’t I’m just depressed. That’s what that feeling is depressed. And so sometimes it’s been hard for sure but mostly it’s I’ve been keeping myself busy. Right You know, and working on these on this. Online thing and I don’t know, hopefully, it’ll be you know, it’s in a baby really big stages. And, and I don’t know, hopefully that occupies, you know, our time, everyone’s time in the great intermission. And I mean, obviously, we all won’t want to go back to crowds. Yeah. I miss crowds, but, you know, I’ve been just doing that kind of thing and I was, you know, living in Nova Scotia as, as you might know, working at a theatre and actually living in the theatre and it’s kind of a dream job and corporate got laid off because, you know, crazy little bug. And so I actually moved back to Toronto, or Mississauga, really. And so I’m splitting my time with my two sisters who, you know, obviously I’m on the lucky end of everything. I’m, you know, dividing my time between my two sisters who’ve raised The allowed me to stay there. Yeah. Which, you know, it’s never easy right brother comes well of course, you know, the artist brother gets kind of hard to, to be in a theatre living in a theatre and trying to work in a theatre when there’s no theatre. Yeah, and even as far as like theatre artists go I, you know, I consider myself lucky that I was able to live in the corner of it’s, you know, Liverpool, Nova Scotia. It’s not really it’s not very many people there I was able to have a little little home in the middle of nowhere for the winter and have my theatre job and I was like, okay, that’s, you know, I’m not gigging for the first time and I’m not desperate and so, you know, and next thing you know, we’re all in the same boat. It’s, it’s really surreal and cathartic and all these all those big words. To have this happen to every artist at the same time, you know, gosh, when else did it how maybe it happened in 1918. But, I mean, we’re in the same boat is like Shakespeare. Yeah, no, no, they went on tour. I mean, yes, they just sort of got out of the city and we don’t have that option. Yeah. No,

Phil Rickaby  05:25

but you know, I think I don’t know I, I often feel like the, the 1918 flu is like this forgotten flu that, that suddenly we’re rediscovering because nobody wrote anything about it and never, you know, it’s like, yeah, it’s a thing that sort of like is a footnote and now it’s like, oh, wait, how did how did they deal with that was like, desperately trying to learn?

Jonathan Paterson  05:49

Yeah, right. Like as a hockey fan, you know, like as a hockey fan, like, I mean, I grew up with, you know, reading the stats, and always seeing 19 17 or whatever it was in 1919, I guess, cancelled a Stanley Cup final cancelled, you know, Spanish flu or influenza. And I was like, What? And that’s another side note. Spanish flu and it’s only called Spanish Flu because they were the only ones reporting it.

Phil Rickaby  06:17

Yeah, I know. I know. I know. It’s like everybody else was like, No, we can’t have any bad news and Spain was like, we’re not in the war. Here’s the bad



Jonathan Paterson  06:26

yeah, of course. I didn’t know that when I was 12. And looking at the NATO cancelled you know, like, oh, that night you know, didn’t have us you

Phil Rickaby  06:33

kind of like what did the Spanish do to cancer?


Yes, right. Here, you


know, I’m still here. Are you still there?

Jonathan Paterson  06:46

Yeah, I’m still there. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Very funny, though. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby  06:51

So I want to I want to do like I have a few things that I want to talk to you about today, but I thought that first, because everybody is sort of like looking at streaming, I find it really fascinating to talk to people who’ve done it. And you streamed Danny MacGyver his house. And yeah, which, you know, just as a footnote, one of my favourite pieces of theatre of all time, so electro electric. Yes. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you a little bit about the process of, of streaming and, and what went into that into prepping for it and what you chose to how you chose to go about it.

Jonathan Paterson  07:34

It’s a it was an interesting, very interesting process. I mean, it all started, you know, right, when cancellations were happening at our theatre, and we were shutting down for a month and I was I knew I was going to be laid off and the Canada performance initiative, I guess, came out and it actually got posted on I lost my gig on Facebook, and I was like, Okay, well, I’m just going to apply ran away. And I’d wasted no time to put together, you know, support material emailed them. And yeah, it took a few weeks to hear back. And when they when they said, Yeah, you can do it. I said, Okay, how do I, how do I restructure this now I’ve done I’ve done house dynamics ever since Oh, eight so I this was a perfect one to do in one respect. But on the other respect, you know, the character of Victor he relies so much on, on humans on Yeah. And like, his whole objective is his relationship with the audience that he has, like he wants to be. He wants to be at least that’s how I played him. I, you know, that’s how I was directed. But, you know, it’s so important to have live people there. So, I knew that was going to be a challenge. So I when I have to do is, I mean, obviously I can’t change makeovers works, right? Because and he’s written it by saying, you know, I know it’s a theatre. I know what to say. And it’s house. Yeah, past Mariah, you can picture it. And he’s like, he does a lot of those things, right. And he goes on, he talks to the audience. So, I wasn’t going to try to restructure that, especially considering there was a production from factory coming up later, which was, which is billed as the social isolation, deduction. Right. So it’s at the so I wanted to honour the live performance, which was that 1990 to play 19 one way and so I even put a little thing in the beginning, saying this was written for a live and it will be it will be performed with that, within that realm of belief. So what but I have to psych myself up and and I’m not sure if the average person would get this but theatre people who went to theatre school would get it and I had to really like pretend I was in a theatre. Yeah, I had to make myself my my dad room was, I was taught practically I was talking into like blankets and, and a bed mattress just because of, you know sound I’ve been wanting to bounce around. But I’ve had spike tape taped out where my, my points of address would be. And I tried to recreate in a, in a emotional memory kind of way that I was in a theatre. And you know, I’m not perfect. I have ADHD sometimes I’m like, yep, that’s my metrics. I did what I could as an ageing actor. So yeah, that was some. It was really rewarding though, because in the end, everything turned out like I just really I really got out a lot out of it. It was it was you know, I was so representing my, my theatre Well, not mine anymore but when I was working there hopefully I can go back who knows the Astor Theatre in Liverpool and this is in Nova Scotia is not far after the tragedy and so he was also I wanted to make it as a shout out to Nova Scotia as well. Daniel macabre from Nova Scotia I fell in love with Nova Scotia. You know, I had a little tribute playing in the Oh as another side note is I’m a tech director right so I know light from sound but I never knew anything but streaming software so I really was just a Google search is what I did and and a big huge deep rabbit hole learning of overlays and all these all these cool, I don’t know screen things coming on the screen. I don’t even know the terms. But I had one of a tribute to Nova Scotia all my pictures that I put on Google none of my all my Google Drive pictures With Stan Rogers of Denver I just saw in the Fisherman’s Wharf but the whole experience with the point I’m getting to was very rewarding and really cathartic in a way because we all were we we’ve all lost I don’t want to say we but it seems maybe we have all as artists lost their purpose you know when they’re doing this pandemic kit and like what what’s our purpose now what are we we don’t want to collect sir payments artists Least of all want to just sit around we want to keep creating. So when we all lost their gigs and lost their jobs, whether you’re a stilt Walker, we’re a standardised, standardised patient. person, we’ve lost our you know, our ability our right and so for me to do house, it was like, okay, you know, I’m living for something, you know, that sounds pretty good. I know but

Phil Rickaby  13:02

it makes it makes perfect sense. Because, you know, as theatre people, there’s this sense of like always going, always hungry for it and always wanting to go and then all of a sudden, yeah, you can’t do that.



Phil Rickaby  13:14

there’s nothing. There’s nobody for you to there’s no hustle, there’s no, there’s nobody for you. nothing for you to prepare for nothing for you to do except to.

Jonathan Paterson  13:23

No, no, no, I just finished when this hit. I just finished doing the first rehearsal, where I saw in the theatre that I was living, and I was I, it was a first read through with a guy from Brooklyn. And it had I projected the the his text onto the big screen movie screen and just sat there. It was awesome. And it was a first rehearsal. And we were supposed to be in a city in New York and in Orlando fringe right now because I’m a big cringer. And of course, no, no, no New York Of course, no Lando and, and the whole The whole summer of fringe touring Toronto, you know, I was going to be in Toronto fringe and yeah, and or at least the stage manager and that’s not at least stage managers huge job or a lighting designer. Anyways, be involved Toronto fringe somehow. And of course now we’re not and you know and and Toronto fringe beer tent was just getting going just to the Mirvish up to the old alley, it was Yeah, just getting going. Yeah, you know, Ah,

Phil Rickaby  14:31

oh, I do want to talk about fringe before we get to fringe livestream, because that’s something that that I think is really important. But again, just to back up a little bit about all that googling that you were doing. Did you find it difficult to learn what you needed to learn to actually stream or did you actually find it? That that it, it was pretty easy?

Jonathan Paterson  14:53

Well, what it took is patience. A lot of friggin I have to say to myself, love I’m gonna spend the next two hours going through videos that are just going to be useless and a lot were friggin useless for sure. You know, it took me a while to learn the difference between OBS open broadcast studio and the the the suite like the very like the like the look the souped up version called I forget what it’s called. Right? So it took me a while to even realise there were two but then I realised that it’s open source so people add on to it, you know, it’s like, right so there’s add on. As it turns out, the original version of OBS is the one that suits my fancy and it’s the one that I figured out especially to host zoom meetings or sorry zoom performances. Yeah. So yeah, I do like that. And then you know, Google was okay it you know, but you just, I gotta have the page I made sure I had patience for it. Because it is hard. It is difficult to find the right thing.

Phil Rickaby  15:56

It’s also a new like, suddenly people who we’ve Been in the room with an audience for so long now all of a sudden, is like alright, learn how to do video streaming, and try to make that. Um, did you did were you given any guidance or did they just be like figure it out? No,

Jonathan Paterson  16:15

no I do nothing I knew nothing we used to do so when I was back at the theatre in Nova Scotia, we used to host a chase the ACE dry every week, which is, you know, when you’re not for profit, you can do gambling to raise money legally, which is kind of cool. Anyway, so we would do a chase Easter every week and we would stream live on Facebook. I never even knew that. The bells and whistles that I thought that I had no idea at the time was to someone with my crack, cracked, you know, Android filming and posting straight and you can make it like the friggin Daily Show. Like you can actually, you can have underlays overly I don’t even know but I don’t know the terms. Yeah, but like you can have like Donate now or whatever you can go cut the videos you can you know add in audio underneath and and I just after doing house and and the pre show it’s just as fun as the performance because I had a bunch of bunch of ad reels going and I had some I had some of my tic tocs let some of my silly friggin rap tic tocs just for fun, you know just just to be a goof and I just love the OBS i love it i just don’t I’m just still learning now I’m still learning well

Phil Rickaby  17:34

I think that we all are because there’s this there’s you know, I think zoom is on its own is not great for a lot of performances like that Brady Bunch grid of performers is not particularly engaging especially if if you like a lot of people are spending much of your day in zoom meetings suddenly is like okay away from from work. And this is supposed to be entertainment, but it looks a lot like work But if you dig in, and you find something like OBS or you find other similar things, you can do things that take it beyond just a grid where you can do like cameras switches and, and move around in different ways. So I think that that we can get more creative. We just have to

Jonathan Paterson  18:21

Yeah, that’s another thing it just opens the door right now is just squeaked open for me, I haven’t put my foot in there. But I did play a little bit on on that and and you can do like if you put in, if you put your two cameras in portrait, you can actually crop it, you can crop out the that yellow friggin highlight death which is so dumb. So you can highlight that out for starters, just by just by superimposing an image and that image can contain a background of I don’t know a desert. You know what I mean? And, and, and and you can go from one scene they call it to another scene so if people switch if people switch sides you can actually switch sides like that’s a lot it’s like that is oh my god that is a whole well if there was yeah there’s a lot of stuff that you can do hilariously.

Phil Rickaby  19:17

Yeah I’ve been sort of like digging in because you know I we don’t know how long this is going to last and maybe eventually I’ll I’ll create something


else that was going on


last year

Phil Rickaby  19:32

okay, what’s happening here? Oh,


I can hear you now. Okay perfect. Okay. This

Jonathan Paterson  19:41

technology and this brings it This brings another that brings up another topic just by the mere chance this this happening right now is like that. Like there’s a whole new set of shit that can go wrong now. Yes, you know with Orlando fringe Pour. I mean, they did they did commendable. But there were times when the producer Lindsay was just like, What the fuck, you know, a couple times. But for the most part they like pulled off the unprofitable. Yeah. But But tech stuff can happen all the time all the time now with zoom bombs and Wi Fi going and Oh,

Phil Rickaby  20:22

yeah. So many so many new things to go wrong when it just used to be maybe somebody in the audience

Jonathan Paterson  20:31

Yeah, exactly.

Phil Rickaby  20:32

You know. So I wanted to Yeah, I wanted to take a take a second to just talk about about fringe in general because you’ve been doing fringe all over for a long time. So I wanted to start by asking if you can remember when your first fringe was.

Jonathan Paterson  20:54

Yeah, my first sprint is 1993, which was only a couple months out To the last Canadian team won the Stanley Cup and it was the Winnipeg French 1993. I did Caryl Churchill play cloud nine, which, you know, is almost more important now than it was back in 93. Amazing explosive. I love that new word. So yeah, that was the first bridge that did it three. Wow. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby  21:24

Were you were you living in Winnipeg at the time? Or did you?

Jonathan Paterson  21:28

Yeah, I’m a pagan. Okay. Yeah, I grew up grew up there. I got into theatre when I was a teenager, and of course, one of the fringes is just the whole city just embraces it. Yeah. So it was it was pretty Yeah, I didn’t meet you in Winnipeg. Or I met you through Richard. I guess Richard bone. Yeah, yeah, you guys were doing I know. I might have met you at the clown Fest in like 2000

Phil Rickaby  22:00

Oh, that is God possible. I mean, we were I think may have been Last Man on Earth at that point you were Yeah. And that was clown fest that was like the first time we’d ever done that show. That’s a lovely fringe.

Jonathan Paterson  22:16

Lovely show. Lovely show. You were lovely in that show. Oh, thank you.

Phil Rickaby  22:21

But you you so you did you you started when a peg When did you start touring?

Jonathan Paterson  22:29

Other thousand words? Well, no, I wasn’t 90. Well, 2000 but 96 he did a little little taste of touring with a with an improv show called twisted nipple improv. And we went to Minnesota and Edmonton and Minnesota fringe was hilarious at back in 96. And we didn’t know what the hell we were doing. But in 2000, we had a little bit more of a cohesive structure of recent college grads. we upgraded to a ban. And so we toured across the we we wanted to make a go on it, of it and I’m the last one I’m the last man on earth. I’m the last man standing of our middle. Really ribbit Republic is what’s the name of the company is the name of the company that we still sort of tour under? Well, with different you know, under different artists and stuff. And yeah, 2000 was the first one and, man we have so many hilarious stories of like, Oh, just being idiots, but


also fun. Yeah. So I mean,

Phil Rickaby  23:36

I have is there, like, across Canada? Have you done pretty much all of the fringes?


Yeah, I pretty much done all of them.

Jonathan Paterson  23:49

Let’s accept. Let’s see what I have. What haven’t I done? There’s a few. In Canada pretty I haven’t done Halifax and I haven’t done Fundy in Canada. And then there might have been a couple ones cropping up in Canada that I haven’t done in America. There’s a whole whack load I haven’t done but but I’ve done a lot of calf Canadian Association of fringe festivals in America. And I got I love it. Absolutely love it.

Phil Rickaby  24:21

When you start running a BYOB for in Edmonton

Jonathan Paterson  24:28

yeah 2020 wow 2012 was the first year for for that for that if that was a nightmare. The first year was a nightmare as a tech I was a nightmare tech to begin with. And so you know, I put my dimmer packs under the audience chairs and audiences with just kick out the dimmer packs are happier. You know, half the lights are off and just I just dumb things. We had a fat frog. I’ve never even seen a fat frog like this is the lighting desk. I haven’t even seen a fat Frog before after this but somehow we managed to get a fat frog I wouldn’t even know what a programme it now you know just we’re just just like this heat not like no just cooking our for nails as front lights just bad bad tech choices. Yeah but we’ve since grown and we have a kick ass crew Sydney heydrich is is runs it with me and we we love it like French core. It’s a hub now. So now we have we run three venues out of the French Quarter hub at Edmonton. One One is named after my mother and that is storytelling venue will not be storytelling belly but it’s a it’s an 80 seater. And then we have run the campus a john and then we turn a banquet hall into a theatre so we have three decently sized theatres. And it’s it’s a joy yeah it’s great we bringing in obviously fringe artists from and this year too we had such a killer lineup this year. Man that hurts I know it really hurts we we said we can defer to everybody else but yeah to next year to you know everyone can defer to 2021 but it does hurt there were some really cool people I call it like the cold hard and you know, Gemma Wilcox and you know, Aaron Aaron Malkin like these great performers right? Yeah. Poop.

Phil Rickaby  26:38

When what I mean, in terms of like, like running a BYOB for the biggest Fringe Festival in in in Canada. What What goes like are people applying to you Do you are you are you seeking them out? How do you How are you programming that BYOB

Jonathan Paterson  27:00

bit of both a bit of both, we started programming it. First come first serve lottery. This is 2012. And we’ve since moved to more of a juried aspect of it just because the price tag is big, you know, I mean, there’s, it’s we’re sort of running a mini festival and yeah, the rent is the rent isn’t cheap, you know, and gear rental isn’t cheap. paying our staff isn’t cheap. So, we want to make sure that people can come to our venue and not, you know, not lose money. Yeah, we sort of we, we like to look to people who are, you know, couldn’t can hold their own as well or can make enough money to get by. So we also recognise that, that that is also the potential for just, you know, hashtag fringe for white bullshit. So we have a one spot that we dedicate to artists from undergrad Presented communities last year was a troop from Egypt. Oh, wow. Which was which was awesome. Yeah. And this this year was supposed to be indigenous storytelling from Alberta. Yeah.


So sad. So sad.

Jonathan Paterson  28:16

I know I know. And then the suit Patterson, this is, is is a smaller one with a really low price tag for rent. So we we like to attract, you know, artists who are just starting out. So that’s our that’s our, our facet for that. But yeah.

Phil Rickaby  28:37

When I was when I was in Edmonton with Keystone theatre we, I heard somebody say that people are at the beginning of that festival are more likely to go to the BYOB than the lottery show because of the curation of it, because they’re more likely to see a show there that has been chosen and is is is of good, they feel confidence going to be good quality. And then as the reviews come out, they’ll take their chances on some of the other shows. Is that something that that you’ve seen or that you’re you’re aware of there, or is that something? Yeah,

Jonathan Paterson  29:14

most definitely. Yeah, most definitely. We see that trend we see. You know, at the beginning of the festival, we’ll see people coming to see shows that that have been there year after year, and they know they’re going to get a good product. And then yeah, as the as the week goes on, at least at the French Quarter, the sleeper hits come out. Yeah. Now I haven’t been to fringe proper, I hardly ever get get to make it to fringe proper, just because of the sheer volume of work for two weeks at the border. But, I mean, I still like to think that there is I mean, fringe has to I mean, generally speaking fringe has to relate Or at least the strength the fringes, people taking those chances on Yes, the randomness of it. So that’s something that that I hope never goes away, left you know, certain performers just come in get 20 30,000 bucks and leave whereas you know, this really obscure you know, storyteller gets nobody and never heard from him again so if there is there is that that needs to be protected as well that that randomness of it so I’d like to think but it is hidden miss it, it will not Yes, but it is a bit of both right.

Phil Rickaby  30:41

But it is it is a low risk, like chance that you’re like, you’re not paying like 80 bucks for a ticket or something. Now then going to see something that you don’t like, like you’re you’re paying like 10 $12 to see something and so this thing of Oh, I didn’t put too much Enjoy that show is not quite as high as if you spend a whole lot of money. No,

Jonathan Paterson  31:06

not at all. That’s so true. That’s so true. It’s a gem rolls an old, you know, of course, he’s like, no one is the sort of the godfather of the fringe. Yeah. And, you know, he’s so wise and he said one time to me is just like, fringes is another Renaissance and you create a renaissance by having, you know, accessible theatre and it’s accessible because it’s, it’s because of the price. Yeah, and it’s you and because of the volume of people So, I mean, I’d like to think that you know, generals this age of the fringe. I like to think that Yeah, we the fringe movement has created somewhat of a renaissance because it does check the boxes, you know, we, we’re there’s fringe there’s I Matt and that’s what I’m gonna miss about it. You know, it’s going to be okay online, I suppose but, I mean, I’m gonna miss being able to be like, Oh, this is a random show that I’ve never even knew really existed. Yeah, like, really that’s like some crazy zombie horror set in space. I’m in you know, an obscure things that that all of the fringes you know like that that like the shows that have come out of some you know you’d never know that London fringe would would would produce some of the best dance you know in the country or you would never know that the Orlando fringe well I guess you would know Orlando fringe is the campy musical capital right or Yeah, you know, like you’d never know that or or Vancouver has these really sometimes these really bizarre site specific shows you know, a few shows in vans or bathtubs and right in the fringe Can you know do that like

Phil Rickaby  32:53

yeah, it’s it’s really you’re right because there’s that that aspect of like stumbling across a show that Yeah, never would have, like, it’s so below the radar and then all of a sudden it blows your mind. And you’re so glad that you saw it, which is the kind of thing that you can only discover at like the fringe tent or something like that, you know? Yeah. Or because somebody pitched it to you in line.

Jonathan Paterson  33:20

Oh, yeah, that too. That’s an art form as well, you know, flyering lineups and being active and, you know, most people are really respectful and you know, everyone has a, but you’ll have some people come out with a trumpet and, and, you know, which is fine. We used to do crazy stuff like that, but, you know, it’s crazy of noxious flyering techniques that just put all the other ones Yes, we’re not flowering.

Phil Rickaby  33:42

Yes, yes. You know, I I have always said to people who are first time infringers, like, look if generals is in town, follow him for like an hour and watch him. Yeah, because he’s a master. He’s a master.

Jonathan Paterson  33:55

He’s a master. Yeah. Gemma was Kelly Finn again. Yeah, I mean, like These guys can work a crowd, they can engage with people who are there flyering they don’t take over the crowd, just chatting. I mean, they approach it. Like, if you’re in the lineup, we’re going to talk to you. It’s just a part of fringe. And they, they’re I mean, I’m horrible at wiring. I’m just I’ve never been good. You know, come on to the show, come to the show, come to the show. Come to the show. Oh, yeah. No, no, I’m sorry. I’m bad. You know, I can’t. But generals and Kelly Finnegan really engaged. Carlin Rainey and she’s another one just really engaging performer or at least that each AUDIENCE MEMBER remember when they’re when they’re in? Yeah, for sure.

Phil Rickaby  34:42

Yeah. I watched I was Carlin and you know, I remember I was at her first year.


Oh, you’re back. Are you there? I hear you. Okay, good.

Phil Rickaby  34:50

I was watching. I was are you still there? Okay, good. Good. Oh, he disappeared for a sec. I’m sorry. No. I was In a Hamilton French Carlin Ramiz first year when she was doing sour, and I was like I, I thought that she’d been doing French for ages. And I just never seen her before. Because she would just like talk to people. Yeah. And she was really good at it, you know?

Jonathan Paterson  35:17

Yeah. He’s since he’s joined the fringe livestream crew and she’s heading up the artists for underrepresented communities series. And she is a social media wizard, Warlock, heroine, whatever you want to call


it, you know, find hashtags and never even thought of Oh, that yes.

Jonathan Paterson  35:41

So it’s great to have her as an admin on this. Yes, this

Phil Rickaby  35:46

is a great opportunity to talk about fringe live stream and as I want to start with, could you do you have an elevator pitch for what fringe livestream is?

Jonathan Paterson  35:58

A fringe performance right? your living room is is one of the tagline. Nice. But, and then of course, the grant mission statement is We’re a group of volunteers dedicated to providing a platform for live performance during the Great intermission. And that’s basically that’s basically it. I want it to capture live performance. Canada performs. I’m not sure. I mean, most of Canada performs I’ve seen has been live. And I do respect people submitting Of course, that’s, I mean, I have something I could submit, although I look horrible. But I wanted to I didn’t seem like anyone was sort of exploring the live performance aspect of it. So that’s how fringe livestream came to mind. Also, I wanted to help the artists I know that sounds like I’m, you know, Oh, I’m so good. But I was really distraught when when when fringe was cancelled, like, the summer like from May to September was cancelled for hundreds of people and and on the fringes across North America are scrambling to justify why they got the grant. They did. Yeah. Or, you know, like, they were running around like holy crap and probably prematurely I wrote them a letter calf and I said, I want to infringe. Yes, you know, me. I’m a bit zealous over that. And I wanted to do that, and I got some support. Now, it’s not like it’s not a it’s not a fringe. It’s nons, especially in Canada. It’s not a fringe. I can’t I can’t say it’s a Fringe Festival. And it’s, it’s not because it said no, no, because I’m not allowed to. I mean, for sure, because, but it’s, you know, but also, because a friend is much more it’s Yeah, it’s not only the beer tent, but it’s also the word of mouth in the buzz in the cabaret and the flyering we were just talking about in the reviews and the and the shitty and the guy who’s a really horrible review and you know the show the sleeper hit and you know the and the holdover and all of it like that’s fringe right and the friggin beer tent and oh my god this places shutting down so we have to move the beer to a a hockey rink. Is it gonna work? Holy shit, it does work. Yay. Oh my god, that the TD of the Toronto friend who’s organising hilarious like, like storytelling, beer tent events, you know? Friends, right? Yes. Yeah. So, you know, like, so I. But at the same time, I wanted to highlight fringe performers. Right. So I want to stop sort of calling it a Fringe Festival, but I do but I’m, I’m going to gung ho and calling it a fringe performing platform for for artists and and to, to perform live. So that Yeah, the gist of it. Every Thursday at 9pm for me here to whenever this thing ends.

Phil Rickaby  39:04

Now, here’s a question for you. Is it one one performance each, each week? Or is it your performances each week? Or how what does the fringe

Jonathan Paterson  39:18

so it’s one performance each week. And I didn’t want to overwhelm audiences, I didn’t overwhelm myself with OBS software. I didn’t want to, you know, I wanted to keep it manageable. I didn’t want artists competing with each other too much. I wanted to see if they can gain a little bit of, you know, donations. So it’s one a week the stream will be, it will be on. We’ll be left on the site for the week following on until the next show so that people can go and watch a show. If they want to donate. There’s a link that goes straight to the artist actually goes to me, and then then I give it to the artist, of course. Yes. And that’s it. Cuz that’s how I set up my stripe account, which I just finished doing. Like I’m just like, this is so grassroots, right?

Phil Rickaby  40:07

It is there’s so many things like none of us have ever considered like, how do I get people to pay for a live stream before?

Jonathan Paterson  40:14

I know it’s, it’s, it’s revolting, no. There will be there will be three links available for the for the show, there will be one where they can donate for credit card and email they can transfer to and PayPal which I’m going to try to set up as well. So they can choose which you know, way to you know, and plus if if the artist wants to put their own link on they can but that’s sort of the idea is that artists can you know, not only live perform again but make a little bit of money.

Phil Rickaby  40:50

Yeah, yeah. Um it’s all going to be it is going to be a live stream rather than pre recorded.

Jonathan Paterson  40:58

Yeah, all live. Yeah. So are they I’m going to I’m going to host them by zoom and play it through the OBS now, if they have their own means they could do it themselves and cut out the zoom middleman. But if they don’t, that’s all they gotta do is call in zoom. Make sure I get the pro version so it doesn’t cut off after an hour and, and stream away. Yeah, that’s that’s the idea for sure.

Phil Rickaby  41:23

So are they using like a because I know because zoom does have that 40 minute limit. Are they does the artists have to purchase their own? Or like I’m getting really nerdy about the technique?

Jonathan Paterson  41:34

Oh, do it now I’ll do it if you know the way I see it is like I’m I’m getting sir right. We’re all getting Yeah, and like so we’re being paid to work, aren’t we? Like I’m not being paid to sit around I’m being paid to work so I’m, it’s not like I’m It’s not like I feel like I’m being taken advantage of so if I have to buy an ad on Facebook or purchase The professional version of zoom or what have you, I’ll do it. You know, it’s no big deal.

Phil Rickaby  42:08

thing I think a lot of people forget. And it’s sort of like a relatively new thing as far as fringe advertising goes is a lot of times people don’t leverage things like advertising on Facebook and Instagram. Like, yeah, which is not particularly you can get in fact more you can probably get more out of that then you can buy advertising in a newspaper and you know, that you’re targeting the right people.

Jonathan Paterson  42:33

Yeah, oh, yeah, there you go. That’s the best part is your target, you know, you target so I got ads running for for the page for the event and you know, and they target specific, and that’s the best way now. I only do Instagram and Facebook and there’s you could you can have them show up.


That was really annoying.

Jonathan Paterson  42:59

I don’t even know what I was saying,

Phil Rickaby  43:01

we were saying about about how you can you can you can Facebook and Instagram and you can.


Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Paterson  43:09

So anyways, that’s all I gotta say about that.

Phil Rickaby  43:13

as well. I mean, advertising is is important, right? I mean,

Jonathan Paterson  43:18

yeah, very good. Have you gotten the word out? You’ve got to get the word out. And like now Instagram we started about well, our social media we started about maybe a week to 10 days ago, although days are really blurry these days. And we’ve grown to almost 1700 Facebook and almost 500 Instagram, which you know, is small potatoes, let’s face it, I would like to get them up to 1000 each of them but you know, but just in the sheer amount of time just when you check in, you’re like, oh 10 more likes it’s, it’s a I haven’t seen something grow this quickly before. So I

Phil Rickaby  43:55

mean, it is it is those those little growths are like that because you still look I’d like oh 10 means something. It’s like, if you get to like over 1000 like 10 is like, Oh, that’s just nothing but never now 10 is exciting. Like every every person that joins is an exciting thing.

Jonathan Paterson  44:11

Oh, yeah, I love it. I invited everybody on board. So I’m trying to get all everybody else try to get other people to write Yes. Yeah. You know, all that stuff and yeah to engage and stuff like that I’ve followed every friend and every, like followers or friends or at least what they suggest. And now I’m like, trying to follow and then I noticed these weird things like, Okay, I’m gonna follow Ken stage because Ken stage they gotta have a billion followers. They have like, 500 Yeah, right. Can stage have 500? Or like Calgary, French bless their hearts. They haven’t posted since 2013. Um, well, I mean,

Phil Rickaby  44:45

yeah, that’s, that’s I mean, but that’s the problem with like, sometimes people start their social media, they don’t tend to it and they just sort of let it they let it fall away, you know, and that’s terrible for like a fringe especially like a fringe that still runs to not have to since since 2013, because it looks like they have like they don’t exist.

Jonathan Paterson  45:05

Exactly. And I went to that fridge last year. They’re lovely but who, who posted on? You know what? I wonder if when I see that I’m like, Oh, they lost the password. They can’t get it back. They have to start something or like how did that happen? Like, who would not post in 2013 but I don’t know,

Phil Rickaby  45:23

I guess is almost like did did they forget or did they not get somebody to do it? Or, you know, which is such a strange thing to overlook?

Jonathan Paterson  45:32

I know it’s so strange. I’ll do it like

Phil Rickaby  45:38

Yeah, yeah. And yeah. So in terms of the the logistics Did you guys just do a lottery for for fringe livestream? Yeah.

Jonathan Paterson  45:45

Oh, gosh. Okay, so this is our lottery. So we did a lottery it was going to go live on Orlando fringe today. And we’re also going to post it on fringe live stream on the Facebook. And it was a Pure grassroots fringe because we Orlando fringe contacted me for instance okay we had a zoom bomb last night and oh my god think you know it’s so shit so can you record it ahead of time so we’re like I can do that and we’ll and there’ll be two witnesses will be Carlin and Josh we’re both heading up the AUC series now Josh His name is Josh Lando now I’ve been calling him Lang Lang doc for Okay, I don’t know how long and he just told me the other day that is Lando so I even hope I’m pronouncing it now but Josh Lando and Carlin who I used to call ramie. But anyways, and Harlan Randy are both heading up there artists for underrepresented communities here at Sirius. So they’re joining me on zoom and I’m doing a lottery with my nephew as as holding the cue cards and and Megan of my other my niece, beside me picking that picking the names. So we did the draw and it was Awesome and fun and then I went to go to upload it, to give to email it to Lindsey doesn’t upload doesn’t matter what I know I can do and I’m trying everything. I’m trying to get it to upload to dry and I’m laughing now but holy Frank, I’m uploading the drives not working. I’m emailing not working. I’m, I’m a cop. What else did I do? I tried my phone my tablet. Yeah, nothing. I bored my nephew’s computer didn’t didn’t work either. Okay, so none of this is working. So, all right. I know what I’ll do. So I had a tablet and an Android. Okay, so I play. I play the I play the video on tablet. Go live on my phone. Oh, no, I’m on Orlando. And just film it. I guess that the term?

Phil Rickaby  47:57

Yes, I think that’s what we’ll do. Yes.

Jonathan Paterson  48:01

While I’m live on my phone in the garage, right? Dark just filming while it’s playing right? And apparently, nobody gets people notice, but they can understand it.

Phil Rickaby  48:15

So that’s good. That’s the important thing.


Yeah, that’s all. Yeah.


Yeah. And when

Phil Rickaby  48:22

did when do we see the first performances for fringe livestream

Jonathan Paterson  48:25

may 28 at 9pm Eastern. It’s just Newman hashtag magic. He’s a mentalist trickster and magician, a very, very lucky that we drew him because he’s ready to go. It’s, it seems like he’s got all the support material. He does virtual performances. So May May 28. Thursday, and then every Thursday after that, les Kirk and Paul Barrett from Hollywood is next and Joanne Roberts from Winnipeg. After that, and then we carry on to the month. Nice. Nice. Check out fringe livestream calm I know I got like a sales pitch

Phil Rickaby  49:10

No, but you got it we got to get that got to get that out there. Have you thought about about trying to do like a monthly like fringe late night sort of thing or something like that like just like each month have the people who are who are performing that month like just on some kind of like wild zoom meeting.

Jonathan Paterson  49:30

That’s a great idea. That’s another thing what the grassroots is. All these ideas are coming to me that I’m like, holy crap, that’s a great idea. Now a lot of fringes have been organising a cabaret of their own. Yes. And they I’m not sure yet if it’s going to be incorporated into fringe livestream or not. I certainly would like it to be and especially if it’s a monthly thing, now have the performance of cells do something that is a wonderful idea. And we’ve also had a meeting if if sometimes Beyond the fringe Facebook group, we had a meeting one day about just things, and Chloe and Jess from might have a snail have started a zoom beer tent, which I would love to just incorporate that into, you know, like half an hour before but these are things that I can’t personally facilitate just cuz like I’ve reached my limit of things to do. But I would love people to join us and and like say, Oh, we have a visual arts aspect of fringe livestream. Can we submit it? Can we do something about that? Okay, great. And you know, people can order prints online. Okay, great. So, you know, if in a perfect world, that’s what it would be fringe livestream would be just helping artists, you know, and someone would give us a grant and maybe we’ll make a bit of money. But no, you don’t make money with a grant, but get paid for our time. Yes, more than making money like we’re not Mirvish is here.

Phil Rickaby  50:56

No, but like, you just want to get something you know what Like, all these all these artists who were anticipating, like making, you know, essentially scraping by for a summer but having a blast doing it are now not even having the opportunity to scrape by for the summer.

Jonathan Paterson  51:14

No, no, not at all. And even some of the, you know, the solo performer to like actually like, or the, you know, I don’t want to call them heavy hitters. That’s not to say but to actually rely on this for their income or the producers to rely on it or, or technicians and it just goes vendors like, Oh my god, it’s just what a ripple that it is sent down, that none of us are, are going to be able to work or, you know, I know it’s play for us, but it’s also you know, it’s, I say I think we provide a service of Catholicism for people and Catholicism is an important thing to experience and to align your thoughts into to I just think it’s important you know, serotonin and endorphins and laughing and You know and feeling. I think the arts and especially storytelling, which is theatre and is fills that void for people, you know, someone’s dog passed away. So he sees a show about a dog. Okay, so he’s able to cry. So he’s so now he’s able to let it out. Okay. Yes, it feels better. Great how he performs better at work. I mean, why does someone do a study on that?

Phil Rickaby  52:24

Um, the, the the idea that yes, I was you. You were saying like, you know, we just sort of like, have fun for a summer but, you know, I think I’ve always thought that, that, you know, fringes still work


like, Oh, well, yeah. I don’t think I’ve

Phil Rickaby  52:39

ever been as tired as I am at the end of a friend.

Jonathan Paterson  52:41

Oh, my God. I gotta tell you something that Jim Rohn said he did this for one of Chris Ross’s storytelling nights for at the backstage pass for I and so Jim rose comes on stage. He says you know, the friends has got it all wrong because you start in Montreal you end in in Vancouver. But it should be reversed. He goes around to reveal about why it should be reversed but what he what he gets to is that when you start your show you are you’re healthy as all can be right but your show is shit. All right, you are healthy. You’re eating well, you’re Montreal you’re eating well you’re doing you know that you’ve just finished fattening up throughout the winter and getting healthy and all that stuff. I shouldn’t say fattening up but but getting healthy throughout the winter. And but your show is crap. You don’t know what you’re doing. Alright, but by the time you get to that Coover, you are so malnourished, you have broccoli on a pizza and call your vegetable of the day and you’re not sleeping. You’re eating granola bars, but your show is just so tight. Yeah. Somewhere around Winnipeg. You’re like halfway, you know you’re eating Okay, yeah, it was okay, but by the time you hit goober, you’re like, anyways, I thought it’s such a great observation. It is. Yeah, hard. work it’s hard work especially if your show doesn’t do well and it could it could change from city to city you know and and you’re in a city where you have to friggin flyer more because he didn’t get a some some guy didn’t like your show because he quote unquote doesn’t understand dance or yeah never never saw the star or never saw the Star Wars trilogy so he hates it. Yeah, stuff like that. So you’re like, Okay, well, I guess I got a flyer now I gotta watch

Phil Rickaby  54:26

it because you never know what, like, what a review is gonna do or what the reviewers gonna say. When we opened the last man on earth in Montreal, our first stop on our tour. We had a reviewer come to see the show. And they I remember I think they were in the print. And and their review started. Well, I hate mine. So I knew I wasn’t gonna like


this show.

Phil Rickaby  54:51

We’re not minds, and it wasn’t mine. But they decided going in they weren’t gonna like the show. My man you never know.

Jonathan Paterson  55:03

Oh man, it’s so yeah, that is that is a shame. That is a shame. We did an absurd piece in Montreal, I think it would go great in Montreal, but they didn’t like absurdism and they called it Monty Python without the funny so Oh,

Phil Rickaby  55:16

yeah, yeah. Yeah, you never you never know. You don’t know. Because every you can think I did well in this city, I’m going to do well in that city. But each city has a different taste in what they want in their fringe. Yeah. So what works in what works in like Winnipeg, like something with a little meat to it? Well, Edmonton likes a little bit more silly than Winnipeg does. And like, there’s all these little things, you know,

Jonathan Paterson  55:44

little little adjustments. Yeah. You know, like, Winnipeg in Edmonton, you know, or Winnipeg might be a little bit people could say it’s, it’s a bit maybe on the conservative side, and they might want something that a little bit that’s more accessible, right but, but then at the same time, they have They gave birth to the show with the guy putting the mayonnaise up his Yahoo. Yeah, it’s like okay, well, he’s more subversive than all of them.

Phil Rickaby  56:11


Jonathan Paterson  56:12

So what do you do? But I do know some trends, I suppose what what I think people especially Orlando Orlando has a definite you know if you can make a hit in Orlando by checking off the boxes for sure. You know, just you know, is it if it’s a musical Is it is it a parody musical? You know, like, there you go, Bang Bang right there.

Phil Rickaby  56:39

One of the, I’m asking people in these, these as a friend of mine calls it the corn times. is is what is giving you joy these days, what’s helping you get through the day and giving you a sense of joy in each day.

Jonathan Paterson  56:58

You know what I’m gonna have to say my family these days. I’m gonna look back on this and and and think to myself, yeah, you know, I’m out of work. But I’ve been able to spend more time with my sisters in particular. Like, then well, I mean, we’re all very close to begin with. I’m always here for Toronto fringe in the summer and here for Christmas. But this has been sort of extended stay and just to sort of really, really, really bond not like we were not bonded to begin with, but just to really get to hang out with my family. And then it has been very important. So that’s given me a lot of joy. Watching the winter turn to spring is giving me joy. starting up a bunch of Facebook groups, just like with people I used to work with that we wouldn’t have done had it not been for the pandemic like right now these old old fringe tour shows where we have this little Facebook group and we’re different Being idiots and you know, you know, laughing at each other and just stuff like that, right? So, in a way we’ve been able to, or I’ve been able to connect with people I haven’t like, as soon as it hit, I talked to so many people just through other Facebook or Facebook chat or Facebook calling or whatever they call it, and, you know, it, that was one thing that sort of brought out. Happiness, at least in me. I mean, there’s, there’s this underlying sense of like, missing crowds, and that’s never going to go away, at least not for me. You know, it’s, there is a sadness. There is a base sadness that that at least I’m dealing with. But, you know, because it’s, it’s going to get tougher, it might get tougher and tougher. I mean, Mirvish is not coming back with 2021. And I look to Mirvish as sort of our, our measuring stick. Yeah, or it’s like they have the most incentive. But out of the, well, maybe not they were their commercial. But you know, Mirvish and Stratford have the biggest incentive to get back to it. So hopefully they’ll set the example we can follow their lead.

Phil Rickaby  59:12

Yeah. Yeah. They’re kind of like the canaries in the coal mine. Like, what are what are they doing? Yeah. You know, when you’re able to look at, you’ll be able to look at their show at the shows that are going on there and say, Are people going to shows right now? Yeah, yeah, people I saw seeing it.

Jonathan Paterson  59:28

Yeah. You I saw the social distance I saw. I don’t know what country but it was they, they have a theatre at an event going on where people are sitting, you know, four rows apart or whatever. And, you know, that’s, oh, it’s sad.

Phil Rickaby  59:42

Yeah, that’s a German theatre. Actually, Germany was reopening some of their theatres. That particular one is in Germany is one of those countries that believes that that the arts are not a luxury, they’re human right. And so they they fund the arts and people go to the arts, they have subsidised tickets and things like that. So the theatres are able to do that. Because they’re getting, they get some they get some money from the government that a lot that’s allowing them to call that theatre that’s that seats. Over 1000 people full house when sitting 200 people.

Jonathan Paterson  1:00:20

Ah, I mean beautiful and yeah, and wonderful. Yeah. I mean, and I guess if we could do that, that would be a win. That would be a step up from live streaming. I’ll tell you that much. Um, would you know, I mean, cuz cuz that’s what you that’s what you need. That’s what you need. Like, I mean, that’s another thing I’m thinking about is yes, I’m diving head headfirst into the fringe live stream and, and having this Performance Series and, but I do this longing for for crowds again and longing for live theatre to come back. And, you know, I mean, my job depends on it and Nova Scotia that’s Yeah, but also just like fringes, you know? And I miss it and it’s gonna keep going. I mean, how long is this? Well,

Phil Rickaby  1:01:07

we don’t that’s the problem is that is that right now there’s so much uncertainty. We don’t know when this might end. So I think it’s it’s even more important that we’re, you know, some people are sort of naysaying the the live streaming. Like that’s not theatre. And I think we can all agree it’s not been all agree it’s not it’s what we’ve got now.

Jonathan Paterson  1:01:28

That’s what that’s distant. It’s what we got now. And yeah, and and the people naysaying streaming theatre, they have such legitimacy to do that. I will be right there with them, you know, I am right there with them. It’s not the same we want we want our people back. I mean, and, and this is this is attempting to fill a void, for sure, you know, at least with and I like to think that life performance, at least in calculating encapsulates, you know, a portion of that right.


Yes, yeah, no. I know.

Jonathan Paterson  1:02:05

Yeah. I mean, like it’s happening. I mean, that’s what a lot of the reason why a lot of people go to the theatre because it is happening live. Yeah. engaged in the moment. So that

Phil Rickaby  1:02:16

it’s also that whole sense of like being in a room of people experiencing something that is actually happening. You know, there’s, there’s, you don’t it’s not the same as as watching a movie. It’s different. And so actually happening. Yes, it’s like I’ve always people are like, Oh, so what’s so big about theatre? I’m like, okay, here’s, here’s my analogy of why theatre is in many ways better than a film is think about stage violence, like a slap a simple slap on stake in a movie, and nobody reacts. Yeah, in a theatre. When it’s live, the entire audience will flinch and may react with an audible reading reaction and that is real people on the stage. And so you know, live stream doesn’t replace that. But again it’s what we yeah to work with.

Jonathan Paterson  1:03:12

That’s such a good point for sure everyone’s Lynch’s I got home a guy that falls. And that’s the thing. I mean, everything reveals I soliloquy, everything. Yeah. So this is the reaction, not just one from one part or if it’s from one person, persons from a bunch of people talking about being contagious. Yeah. And that is, that is what that is what it is. And, and, and you’re so right when people are watching, you know, TV, they react internally. Yeah, you know, yeah,


yeah, gosh.

Phil Rickaby  1:03:44

But it’d be interesting to see what comes out of what comes out of this, like, what innovations will come out of this, that will carry through into into a live theatre, will we be able to finally find a way that we can integrate with video that doesn’t make the theatre boring.

Jonathan Paterson  1:04:03

Yeah. Well, even before this, I was how, you know, experimenting with that. There’s a fellow named Matt, I don’t know his last name, but he worked with Devin more. Now he’s a regular video. Artists like he is wonderful. And working at the Aster, I had access to a lot of different projections and Q lab and all that stuff. And it’s, um, you can do a lot of stuff with video. And it doesn’t have to first of all, it doesn’t have to be a tech nightmare. And it can also be incorporated seamlessly into the performance style. People don’t know how to light is the problem. Yeah, yeah. They don’t know how to light when when they when they have video going or, you know, and they’re, they’re thinking within a box of a screen. Whereas, you know, why don’t you use a scrim down Yeah, and projected onto the screen, you know, for example, or why don’t you project onto the floor or that you can incorporate would be I think we’re the where I hopefully after this is all over people might have a, an eye more towards tech and say, Oh, that’s this can be achievable. He’s I’m,

Phil Rickaby  1:05:19

I hope, I really do hope so I hope that we that. We don’t just forget about everything that we’ve learned from all this, that we can find ways to integrate it back into the theatre again.


Yeah, I can’t wait though, Phil.


towns in a day. I didn’t count the days so we can get back into theatre. I’m not gonna lie. I hear you.

Phil Rickaby  1:05:39

I hear you. Jonathan, thank you so much for joining me tonight. I really appreciate it.


Yeah, thanks for the lovely chat.

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